Warning…, long post is LONG!!!!!
I have an interesting one for you today…, now I admit that this may turn a few of you off me. But I am still entitled to my opinion. And it in no way changes me from the guy you knew yesterday, I am still him. Just do me a favour, and go into this with an open mind I beg you. I am very hesitant in posting this actually, so do not be too harsh. Oh "Fuck IT!" here goes....
This whole thing comes from a conversation I was having at work, the conversation was about sex offenders, and the registry. My opinion on that is that there should be one, though it should not be made public. More of a “Watchlist”, if you will. Let me explain that a little better…,
I will give you two examples here. First you have couple “A”, one is 16, and one is 17. The relationship is loving and rewarding for both parties. Then you have couple “B”, one is 15 and one is 16, again the relationship is loving and rewarding. But what is the key difference between the two? Well there is only a year separating the two in both examples, but, in my country, the 16yr old can be listed as a registered sex offender. How can this be considered right on any level? Now I think I may have mentioned something along these lines before, but I am going to get into it a little more.
This is also going out to Micky, from Smutty Stuff, as I think he could do with our support at this time. He was recently labelled a paedophile, for the pics that he posts. Now some of what he posts does skirt the lines of “Morality” in our shitty backwards, prudish society, but are still within the law. He has consequently been vindicated by Nibblebit, but I am sure he is still feeling a little down over it. So I strongly recommend you go over to “It’s getting better” and give him a hug.
So here it is my earth shaking, soap boxing opinion!
What is morally right or wrong? Is it the narrow minded dogmatic view of the clergy, who obviously believe that such things are only allowed to be performed by them! Or is it what an aging and corrupt governmental system tells you? Personally I think that we should all go our own way…, if no one gets hurt in the process, what does it matter, really?
This is not to say that I am condoning doing things to the pre-adolescent, or even the adolescent for that matter! So in reality I think, if a person believes that he or she is old enough to make up their own mind about things, then why not let them. I understand that people will becry “Perversion!”, and “Coercion!” at this point. But look at the history, and you will find that what we see as morally corrupt is a relatively recent development…, in the grand scheme of things that is.
In Ancient Greece, Mesopotamia , and even Rome Greece Holy Church
Once the jaded, dogmatic view of the church took over in Europe , the various crowns were made mere puppets. It was at this point that, the “Sodomites” really went out of fashion. Many years later, in no small part, helped immensely by the rule of Queen Victoria
It is a shame that we treat our young adults with such contempt. We are constantly telling them that they are the future, which lets face it…, they are! Yet we are not allowed by government, or refuse due to some church bollocks, to arm them with the knowledge to do what needs to be done. I am not just talking about the LGBT community here anymore either, this part of my rant counts for everyone!
I guess where I was going with all this, is that just because someone is Gay, it does not mean that they salivate over young boys, And just because a Gay man wants to look at younger men or teenagers, that does not make him dirty or immoral. I know, a long spiel just to say this, but…, “What you do in your own back yard is your business”, and how dare anyone say any different. I am reminded of a biblical phrase here; it goes a little like…
“Take the stick out of your own eye, before you take it out of someone else’s.”
Or something like that any way. Bear in mind here that I am not saying that I practice these things, it is just an opinion.
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Interesting post!
Morality is the behaviour or code of behaviour that is proper for human beings. In general terms it means to do good and avoid evil. The Clergy and the Government therefore both have a duty to uphold moral values, as does everyone. Whether they do or not (and whether we do or not) is another matter.
You write ‘if no one gets hurt in the process, what does it matter, really?’ This seems to imply that it’s wrong for people to hurt themselves. Do you believe that? (Good for you if you do!) And if it’s wrong to hurt individuals, is it also wrong to harm society? (Do you believe that there is such a thing as society? A lot of people think they do, when actually they don’t.)
You write about ‘Ancient Greece, Mesopotamia, and even Rome’. But in these ancient civilisations ideas about right and wrong varied just as much as they do in today’s world and what behaviour was legal and what was illegal varied greatly not just from century to century but also according to one’s social status.
Queen Victoria did not make homosexuality illegal. She was not a lesbian. There is a myth, however, that she refused to believe that lesbianism existed. The modern gay movement has its roots in the Victorian era. The anti-gay movement though has existed on and off since the dawn of time.
You write ‘just because someone is Gay, it does not mean that they salivate over young boys’. This may be true, but a lot of gays clearly have very repressed feelings for children, which it would be healthier if they dealt with honestly and openly. The problem is that they don’t, and so they’re even quicker to condemn each other for “pedophilia” than ordinary heterosexuals are.
You also write ‘And just because a Gay man wants to look at younger men or teenagers, that does not make him dirty or immoral.’ This is true. But you could just as well write ‘just because a man wants to look at younger men or teenagers, that does not make him gay’. It doesn’t say anything about the morality of homosexuality, or of paedophilia.
THe most important phrase here is: "So in reality I think, if a person believes that he or she is old enough to make up their own mind about things, then why not let them."
That is the problem. How can anyone in adolescence 'know' that they are old enough simply because they think that they are? If that line of reasoning were upheld, then we'd have young and dangerously untrained guys driving vehicles (more carnage on the roads than at present), boys who feel a surge of hormones and bravado would be attempting adult activities for which they were unprepared emotionally and mentally; and we'd be in desperate trouble as a society.
I don't disagree that boys in their teens may know what their orientation is and will want to explore that with another peer partner - but there must be a boundary line established to create a demarcation between old enough and too young. Sadly it does affect the boys in your examples and in real life as well.
The alternative is too destructive to consider - since most boys in their teens are not emotionally stable to begin with.........all those hormones running wild within their blood, etc. etc.
Well reasoned arguements gentlemen, Thank You.
Like I said in the actual post, it is "my" opinion. I am not trying to force it on any one else. Though that you took the time to read it through does please me.
I must say this though, who am I..., or anyone else for that matter, to tell someone how to live their lives. I live my own life by a strict code of honour, what you live your life by is your business.
Obviously we do not live in a Utopian society. At times the laws of man must come into play, I can not argue with that. It is when the laws of religion and man intermingle that I switch off. Especially when those of the cloth are just as morally corrupt as the next guy.
The point I was trying to make was that, was that we do not have the right to enforce our opinions on others. That just because a couple of dusty old books say so, it doesn't mean they are right.
Like I said in the beginning, it is just my opinion.
The whole "age-of-consent" argument is ridiculous, when one actually looks at it. I've been to countries where the age of consent was 12, and others where it was 18. Are the 12-year olds in the one country more advanced (emotionally and/or physically) than the 12-year olds in the other country? Of course not. It's an arbitrary guideline based on a generality. There are some teenagers who are thoughtful, reasonable beings...and, there are some 30-year olds who shouldn't be allowed out of the house without a keeper!
It's an individual thing, but, unfortunately, the law doesn't (and, really, can't) work that way. So, we end up with this arbitrary melange.
I've just finished reading The Moralist by Rod Downey which weaves these issues into an interesting if a bit disturbing novel ... I'm not sure what views I have on this topic anymore so I'm not going to voice any
Well put.
One thing that popped into my head from the comments was, who defines at what age, every person passes from adolescence into adulthood? As far as I know, there is not some human biological system where as soon as the body has been alive for exactly 18 years (in the USA, for example) then it is suddenly so much more capable of independent thought that it was hours before the mark is reached. Age 12, age 18, it's really arbitrary, because as you say, if someone is mature enough to make their own decisions, they should.
Actually my mind set is much the same as yours.It is a very complicated situation and there do not appear to be any easy answers.For me the thing that upsets me most is why in certain situations common sense and a bit of flexability can't reign.
Kindest regards Stef.
This is an interesting topic and one which may apply to some of the younger bloggers out there. I know some of them have had very consentual relations with people that are not legally entitled to do so with them. The fact that they are self aware enough to discuss it and blog about tells me that they are probably mature enough to decide this for themselves. Some teens aren't. The situation in the US is such that all 50 state have their own laws about the age of consent. I think it ranges from 14-18! I don't know the legal term is, but the differance in ages can matter also. An 11yo and 13yo could pair up in some states while a 12yo and 15yo might not in others. Very confusing. Nice thought provoking blog, Oct.
Thanks for all the comments guys.
Octavius.
Thank you for being brave enough to stick you neck out on the hottest of hot button issues. The thoughtfulness you've put into these issues is impressive. Lets face it, as gay/bi people we have always had to be extra careful with our interaction with children. As deeply closeted as I am, I find myself extra careful to avoid even the very appearance of inappropriate behavior, because fingers always point first toward us. Gay male teachers, for instance, stand generally suspect while str8 blonde female grade school teachers can bone half the 5th grade boys before Christmas Break.
Oh, and by the way, I don' think I've told you but I really like the new template! I hope we get a chance to chat sometime. Look for me on Yahoo messenger.
I don't have much opinion on this topic really because again, its one of those morality issue where its really based on the situation. I must admit that you raised a very interesting point and one that is valid on several grounds as well.
I wish people could put aside generalising and at times have a think more about the situation.
WoW you gave me a headache ! lol
Deep thought(s) here.
To me this is not unlike the Zero
Tol. Thing. Who`s going to be the Judge ?
Thats why Justice is (suppose to be)Blind !
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